Interviewer:  Jim Blackwood
Transcriber:  Annie Robinson
Photos: Kimberly S.

Jim: So we're back stage with Mr. Dave Ellis and we're in Hartford CT. the closest we could get to Tucson, Arizona. How're ya doing Dave?

Dave: I'm good, fine, no problems.

Jim: Wonderful. You're part of The Other Ones, you'd been with Ratdog and you actually had a career prior to that. You had a solo album, you played with Charlie Hunter for years and then even before that, who knows, maybe you can tell us. How'd you get started in the music biz?

Dave: Well gee, I grew up in Berkeley, California where musically there's a large community. Bay Area in general. So I've been playing the saxophone since I was about ten and the Berkeley school's music program was really heavy jazz oriented. And it produced such notables as Benny Green and Josh Redman and Craig Handy and Rodney Franklin and the list goes on and on. There's a real rich history of music where I grew up. I just sort of got lucky in the sense the environment I grew up in was very rich musically. Especially in jazz. So I started real young with a real heavy focus for some reason on jazz. Did a lot of things, I was in a real popular ska band when I was in high school called the Uptones. 

Jim: I think I may actually heard of them.

Dave: You may have because it was a relatively large group actually. I did that and then when I graduated high school I hung around for a few years and recorded in my house and sort of tested the waters doing certain things. Then I went to Berkeley College of Music for four years in Boston. Actually my major there was production and engineering and I stayed for over four years and got a degree in production and engineering. While I was kind of learning, taking lessons and being around all the players. Getting a degree has not been a badge of honor. So like you couldn't find a better gig, so you ended up staying for four years. But actually a MPE degree was a real neat thing. Right before I was due to come back to the Bay Area, Charlie Hunter was on tour with Disposable Heroes of Hiphopricy and they were opening for Primus who was opening for U2. I met Charlie back stage; Charlie and I have known each other since we were like eight or something. He said, "Yeah, I'm moving home, lets get a band." I said ok cool. I'm coming home. So it's funny, I started looking for a job in production, to be realistic. A real job kind of thing. We started playing, Charlie and Jay Lane and I, Jay's an old friend of mine too. And that just sort of got it's own life. Between '92 and '95 that just sort of took off and then we were on Prawn Song and got the deal with Blue Note and blah blah blah. So when I left Charlie's group in '95, I guess it was the beginning of '96 I also got asked to do a record for Monarch. They sort of coincided nicely. So I did that first record "Raven" for them and meanwhile, I had put so much time and energy into the Charlie Hunter thing, I wasn't really sure what my thing was. I didn't have a band, but I had a record to do. That was a strange time for me. So the record, it was good. It worked out kind of...it's a hard record to tour on because there's like three bands and twelve players and all the stuff. So in the years since...let's see, that was '96 and about that time I was looking for people to play with and trying to get my own band together. As well, Jay was playing with Ratdog with Bob and Rob. Jay just sort of pulled me up there and I just kind of hung out up there and "hung out" my way into the band. Meanwhile, I was doing my own thing and then touring with Ratdog and I just finished doing my second record for Monarch. Orrin Keepnews produced it. Half of it's my quartet which is Jeff Chimenti who's in Ratdog and two other local guys, Peter Barshay on Bass and Desone Clayborne on drums and then Orrin hooked up a session with like the heavy hitters. He got Eric Reed on piano and Bob Hurst on Bass and Tootie Heath on drums. But the other band on this album is those guys. I had to sort of get that done, right in the middle of rehearsing for this. So it's not like exactly I had another career, I still have this other thing and I got a couple pots on the stove now. That's coming out in September, it's called "In the Long Run".

Jim: Is "Raven" still available?

Dave: It is, in fact it will be more available than it has been in the past because it's been impossible to find that thing. And that's part of the deal with...Monarch is a small company and it has been growing. Sort of started out as a non-company in a way. They're sort of high profile; they put my name in all the magazines and stuff, but the record wasn't in the stores. They've revamped the whole company. They got a new distribution deal. They said they've re-distributed this record twice already. So now it'll be the third time. This time it'll really been in the stores. So we're hoping this time....the second record they sort of promised they'd be a little more sensible.

Jim: So are you doing any touring on your own stuff?

Dave: Yeah, probably as soon as we get through with this tour in August. The records due out September 23 so I'll probably do a little bit, two - three weeks, here and there. Probably focus more on the West Coast this time. It makes sense to do so, small labels don't have a lot of tour dollars to help support. But that’s one of the advantages of this. It'll give me an opportunity to have some time and be able to afford to pay the guys to go on tour with me a little bit. 

Jim: How do you like the difference between playing in a small jazz club and then doing something like this?

Dave: Oh I love that. Well I’ve been doing that, like I said, with the Uptones. In the middle of doing jazz, the big band and little ensembles we were opening for Billy Idol and the Go-Go’s and stuff like that. So actually I’ve been doing this for a while. Strangely enough. People sort of say, they see me as a jazz player but I’ve had my hand in that stuff for a while. I had the big hair and the bandana with dance steps and the whole thing. It’s not really new to me. In fact, this is closer to a small jazz performance in a giant arena that I’ve ever come. Certainly usually anything this size has got some - a little bit more show biz than this has. And I certainly enjoy that. I still kind of do the same thing. It’s improvisational, spend a lot of time listening to the players and try to find how to fit and nothings ever the same. It’s not like we go up there, play a show, lip synch to a DAT tape and move to the next city. It’s actually pretty similar.

Jim: And have you enjoyed working in Ratdog as well?

Dave: Oh yeah, I love that. We pulled a coup and got Jay and now Jeff is in there too. And Rob Wasserman and Bob and I think Matthew Kelly’s been in the group but it’s sort of up in the air as to whether he’s gonna be coming back. So we may be looking for another guitar player at this point too. And that’s kinda cool. But yeah, I love that. It’s a real treat. Bob’s got a full studio at his house and basically we’ve got free run of it so, what more do you want.

Jim: Are you guys going to be working on any studio stuff at all?

Dave: Yeah, yeah we are. That’s the big question about Ratdog, when’s the album coming out. So those guys are out there and hopefully this month, well I know the other guys in the band have been working on the record a little bit while we’re out here. We sort of said hey guys, why don’t you get started while we’re out here doing this. And I know Bob well enough to know when we come back it’s gonna be like...we’re probably gonna get five days off and Bob’s gonna be like...okay everyone back up here everyday to try to get it done. It’s just a question of just sort of having everybody up there. In a way we gotta force the record out. And it’s good I think actually that we waited till this tour was over. Since we’re playing so much Dead stuff, it’s real necessary that we write music, new music and that we have some new music and that Ratdog had it’s own voice. Cause playing Dead cover tunes is cool and we play them well, put a new spin on them but it’s really important that Ratdog begin to develop it’s own voice. 

Jim: I think with the addition of Jeff, at least from all the shows that I had seen and going to Tempe this last time around, and he sort of laid back through the whole thing and you guys played Cassidy and he just stepped out at the end there. I think it blew everybody’s socks off. I think it’s great. Kind of a nice fresh approach. 

Dave: Yeah, it’s cool. There’s no question about...since we spent our youth focusing on jazz and maybe more pop oriented stuff that this is all new to us really. And strangely enough cause I grew up in Berkeley and hippies are part of the fabric of Berkeley. But not necessarily with the music. So there have been those that said, “Well what are you doing here then?” But actually that part of the reason why I am here is because I don’t have any preconceived notions and I don’t come to the table with any baggage. It’s all sort of a fresh perspective, which after 30 years I think is welcomed.

Jim: So with Ratdog, it seems like with your position where it is in the band, it seems like you were pulled in as sort of the lead guy. At least to most of us.

Dave: Yeah, Bob did not want a guitar player at that time. It just didn’t make sense and saxophone. There’s a bit of a history of saxophone in the Dead. I’m not so sure he was convinced that he knew what he wanted. But I came up there; I had the time and inclination to learn the music and to really focus on Bob. Another thing was, I’ll admit that I actually didn’t know who Bob was until Jay told me he was playing with him. So when I went up and I met Bob and I’m hanging with Bob, I’m not like...oh Bob, Bobby, ahhh...like I’ve seen so many people be. He was like a guy. And it’s taken me a while to realize.... at that level you don’t know what people want from you when they meet you. Because you don’t know what they’ve got in their head. It’s friendly. My wife pointed out to me that before we started on tour I said, “god this is so strange, there’s no definition, there’s no defined role of what I’m doing. I’m sort of making it up and it’s nerve racking in a way”. And she said, “It was just like that in Ratdog. You just forgot that when you got in Ratdog you’re like, what in the Sam Hill am I doing. What is this?” It sort of organically became a comfortable role after two years of touring with Ratdog. Which is why after two weeks of touring with The Other Ones, it’s still a little bit like we’re all still feeling each other out musically and in the dressing room after the show. 

Jim: You’ve been back here already?

Dave: No usually, most days we come and rehearse a little before the show just because it makes sense for us to do that still.

Jim: You rehearsed a lot before the tour too.

Dave: Yeah we did. But there was this sort of guitar player thing going on and who’s gonna be the guy. And is there just one or are we going to have two and are they going to alternate or are they going to play together and so there was all that drama. Then Bruce was in and out. I was in and out, because I got married then I had to do my record too. And there’s all kinds of other things going on. As much rehearsal as we can get. The thing about this is we haven’t been doing it for 30 years as a group. Mickey and Phil and Bobby have a real core rhythm section. And it’s just about making sure that everybody’s got the basic outline for a particular tune and then we can take that and do whatever. But it’s important ... those other guys don’t even have to think about it, just comes naturally. But some of us other people have to need a little structure.

Jim: Have you ever seen the Grateful Dead?

Dave: I never saw the Dead. Nope. Ummm-ummm. 

Jim: Was it ever in your mind ever? You’re pretty much in the world of jazz, that’s where you were prior to this?
 
Dave: Yeah.

Jim: And so probably a lot of our listeners, well I shouldn’t say that, cause I don’t know but jazz is something I love. I want to know who your big favorites in the jazz world are. Going back to the 60's, 50's, 40's wherever you want to take it.

Dave: You know, I always answered this question in two parts. One is the standard people you listen to, certainly as a tenor sax player, the guys you sort of need to listen to, to develop your own voice; Coltrane, Sonny Rolland, Joe Henderson, Dexter Gordon. I spent a lot of time listening to older guys; Ben Webster, Coleman Hawkins...that era of guys. Duke Ellington and before. That kind of era. I spend a lot of time listening to that actually. And that’s more where I think my style emanates from as a tenor player. But then the other half of that is locally there was so many peers of mine and guys above me in grade school that I looked up to like Peter Affelbaum and Craig Handy. Non tenor players too. The jazz band members were like heroes. The jazz band was more successful than all the sports teams at Berkeley High combined. And it was much cooler to be in the jazz band than to be in anything else. I think that’s a little different than most places. It was actually cool to be in the jazz world. So that affected me a lot. I met a lot of folks at a place called Cazadero Music and Arts Camp that people would go to in the summer. I remember when I was a kid, it’d be like me and Josh Redman and all my other buddies, we’d be campers. And then the kitchen workers, you know like sanitation and kitchen were like Peter Affelbaum, Benny Green and all those guys. Because they were seniors in high school, we were just kind of kids. Then the teachers were Bobby McFerrin, Andy Norell. And everyone was in this one place in the redwoods for... I must have spent five-six consecutive summers there. And a lot of my friends that I have now, I made then. That was a real important part of my upbringing. The sort of traditional listening to the necessary guys. I unfortunately...two things I’ll admit to you simply because you know of me and you know of my first record. One is that I would not probably admit to - not necessarily admit but would leave out of an interview - one is that I never saw the Dead and I honestly didn’t pay any attention to it. And two...what was two? Two is that I don’t listen to much new jazz. Eric Reid played on my record. He’s in the Lincoln Center Orchestra. You know, he’s the man, he’s the big bad boy. But I didn’t know who he was till Orrin said I’m getting this guy, Winton’s guy. I said, “oh shit, like ok, alright.  So my roots are old I guess. I’m not sure what that’s about. 

Jim: Charlie Rouse? 

Dave: Yeah, it’s interesting. A lot of people say I have a Charlie Rouse thing about my playing. I didn’t spend a lot of time....I don’t think I own a Charlie Rouse record, actually. Which is a little bit weird. I’ve actually had to go and seek him out because people have said...

Jim: I’m a big fan of Monk’s music.

Dave: That’s a trip, I better go get some huh. Got any records you suggest in particular?

Jim: I mean anything by Monk that Charlie’s playing on.
 
Dave: Those I have. I have the records with him on them. I also spent a lot of years as a Wayne Shorter fan and sort of only recently got into Joe Henderson. So you make those rounds as a saxophone players, you go in and out and back and forth and up and down. 

Jim: Any chance of pulling in any of your own material to any of the grouping that you’re in now, do you think? Ratdog, Other Ones?

Dave: Ratdog, certainly. 

Jim: I have to admit, I like the groove of “Raven”. 

Dave: Right on, yeah me too.

Jim: And I play it a lot.

Dave: Right on. See Bob is open to anything. Me and Jeff started playing Moments Notice before a gig once, not expecting Bob to know that tune. It’s a hard tune, even if you’ve spent your life studying jazz. As soon as we sort of stopped and we were giggling, Jeff and I, Bob said, “I gotta learn that, I gotta learn that, you gotta show me that tune. We’re gonna do it”. Bob’s open to anything. As far as Ratdog is concerned I’ve got carte blanche; it’s up to me. I mean it’s gotta be relative, it gotta be sort of right for the group. But The Other Ones is different. Right now I’m sort of special teams. I’ve had to sort of shoehorn my way into people’s ears. I did it with Bob and now he’s a saxophone man. But these guys aren’t used to it. They just don’t...it’s not a part of their...You know Branford and Ornette Coleman, Pharoah Sanders and even Clarence Clemons I think sat in with the Dead. But it’s always been sort of a guest role, never been a piece of the band. So my role here is different. It’s far less of a lead role than in Ratdog. I do a lot more rhythm stuff; I play a lot more barrie in The Other Ones. Actually I was telling Bruce the other day, it’s a little tough for me...I’m not used to coming off the bench. Which is kind of what I doing here. So it’s actually taking me a little bit of getting used to. There’s three guitar players...what the cool thing is no matter how many, if you had 50 guitar players, none of them sound like a saxophone. So soon as a sax plays, you can hear it’s a saxophone. I do get to sort of fly over the top of things. I’m like frosting. I’m not cake yet. But the bands only been together for like two weeks on the road and four weeks before that. Not even that. Yeah...about four weeks or so. It’s all pretty new.

Jim: Do you think this’ll continue?

Dave: I hope so. I’d love that to be the case. I have no way to tell you whether it will or not. Except that from a business perspective, the management and stuff is definitely paying attention to the fact that the crowds are increasing. And they have a way of nudging the band members to do certain things. I’m certainly hoping so. I would think so. If these guys you know...when Jerry died they said we’re not going to play. Then they say we’re not going to play till 2000 and here it is ‘98 and we’re playing. So there’s no way they’re not going to play basically. It just depends on what it is. Phil’s always does little things, Mickey has Planet Drum, Bruce has his own world of stuff that he does. 

Jim: I would think Bruce would be a real difficult person to get out on a regular basis. He was more or less a part of the Dead for a while then he stepped out of it and didn’t come back for ... except on occasion.

Dave: He has a different career, as do I really. It’s a little different for him, he’s got a large record deal and people expecting him to sell records and make albums and go on tour and he has his own band. This is not his thing. It’s not going to be possible to incorporate him as a band member for over a year. But as far as maybe a gig here and there or certainly a summer tour, I think he’ll make himself available to it.

Jim: Do you know anything about the other two members, Vince Welnick and Bill Kruetzman? If either of them are a potential, even as a sit-in for the last show up in San Francisco?

Dave: I’ve heard rumors. That’s all I’ll say. I’ve heard rumors, that’s all I know. I can neither confirm nor deny any of them.

Jim: Oh good, that’s what the listener’s will want to hear I guess. Are you in touch with Charlie Hunter at all?

Dave: Yeah, he came to the show in New York. He moved to New York. And yeah, me and Charlie and still in touch quite frequently. We’ll probably play together someday. Our lives, since we were eight years old, have gone in these waves. And every now and then they connect. It just works that way. We had some success in the Trio and that was great. He’s doing well. And he seems pretty happy. But he’s always searching too. There’s nothing like your home boys. So no matter where you go, somehow the dudes from the block when you were eight always seem to know a little bit more about you. But it winds up making great musical sense. I guess can relate that to here with these guys, playing since they were whatever...15.

Jim: Do you think with your albums, there’s any chance GDM will make them available through their organization?

Dave: Well, there always on sale here.  Their merchandising is great.  They don’t mind putting it on the shelf.  It’s out there, Raven’s on the concession booth.  They’re absolutely happy to do that.

Jim: I feel like your sound is more of what Deadheads would be interested in.  Especially that first album with Charlie.  To me anyway, it is.  It’s sort of not the mainstream.

Dave: You see now I’ve got some mainstream guys on this record (In The Long Run).  We’re doing it for Orrin.  This record is done.  He wanted to do it live.  No overdubs, like one, two, three go.  He wanted a couple of standards.  So they’re there.  Then I have more tunes of mine on this record than I did on the last one as well.  I also, in the interim, put together a band that rehearsed and that performed over the last two years.  So I actually have a band now.  So it’s funny, I think it will be a consistent follow-up record.  Although in a way it was done more on the fly.  It was two or three sessions and like two takes of each tune and then you pick the one that’s almost good enough and then you go with that. But I’m interested to hear you say that.  I mean, I would love to think that….  I mean it’s certainly different.  It’s jazz, no question about it.  This is not the Grateful Dead.  It’s improvisational, but it’s instrumental.  I would hope so, I would hope that Deadheads would give it a chance and check into it.  Hard to know.  There’s one thing I believe I can say with some confidence, which is that Deadheads like the Dead.  And anything else is kind of like…maybe – we’ll give it a try.  We’ll see.  A little break here in between Dead music.  And there’s no question about that.  It’s a phenomenon and I would hope people would enjoy it.  Certainly I try to make records that are record or CD start to finish.  Not like Hornsby trying to get a hit song and sell a million records.  I’m just trying to make a coherent…like a book.  Something you can live with.  Put it on, put the whole thing on and listen to it, or if you have a favorite track or whatever.

Jim: Well, we hope to see you in Arizona again.  At least with Ratdog and then if your own group is ever touring and you want to get outside the Bay Area, you should come to Tucson.

Dave: I will.  And I will come to your radio show and I will talk with you specifically about this record.

Jim: That’s great, I’d love to have you do that.  And actually when it comes out, maybe we can do a quick thing over the phone.

Dave: Sure…ok, that’d be great.  Here’s my card.  Thanks Jim.

Jim: Yeah, no problem.  We hope to see you do more of this as well.

Dave: Me too man, I’m right with you.  Tell me something.  How is the saxophone working in this context?

Jim: Well, I haven’t seen the Other Ones yet, this is my first.

Dave: Well, tell me after.